sit means sit

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Postby ArtGypsy » April 30th, 2009, 5:36 pm

sitmeanssit.com

This vehicle was parked in the Hotel parking lot in the small town in the next county.....I was curious and went to their web site.......

has anyone heard of them???
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Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby TheRedQueen » April 30th, 2009, 5:58 pm

Ugh. :nono:

I particuarly like the "Sit Means Sit" bandanas in the store that you can buy to use to cover up the fact that your dog is wearing an E-collar no matter what they're doing. :rolleyes2:
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » April 30th, 2009, 6:05 pm

When I was looking for an e-collar trainer for Inara, I had them come do a demo. Inara was slinking around the house and fearful of the guy within about a minute of him putting the collar on. He tried to tell me that was "normal." Their e-collar only has like 10 levels on it, so even the lowest level is quite a jolt to an unsuspecting dog.

I ended up purchasing a high-quality e-collar (127 levels, used it on level 7) and driving to another state to work with a reputable trainer.

Sorry to ramble, but I really dislike SMS.
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Postby katiek0417 » April 30th, 2009, 10:05 pm

I'm pleading the fifth!!!

Seriously, don't do it!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby TheRedQueen » April 30th, 2009, 10:30 pm

I don't like the idea that they take the dogs out with E-collars and hide them...at least be up-front about it...many of the videos have hidden E-collars. :| Silly.
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Postby SisMorphine » April 30th, 2009, 10:59 pm

Run. Far. And Fast. Run.
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Postby ArtGypsy » May 1st, 2009, 7:43 am

Thanks guys, for the info.............

Dar has been signed up for obedience classes for a while now----I go Tuesday for orientation and then it's 6 weeks , once a week after that.
I figure anything that has that much advertising ----guaranteeing those kind of results in THAT time frame, has to be a bit 'off'-----I told my friend Jeanie I would call them, but I knew I'd be hit with some kind of sales pitch, and wasn't in the mood, haha

That's why I went to their website, just to check out what it was all about. The 'pitch man' was so annoying on the SITE, that I didn't take much more time looking into it. Just figured I would get the best info from you guys...

I was curious,,,,,,,,knowing there was something 'off' about em, but wanted to know where their flaw would be .

Jody
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Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
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Postby katiek0417 » May 1st, 2009, 10:11 am

Don't get me wrong, Jody...Fred Hassen (owner of SMS) is a very nice guy, and friend of Greg's. However, I have seen dogs that associates of his (he franchises out) have trained...and I haven't liked what I've seen...This isn't true for all of his franchisees...but some...

There are ways to train a dog with an e-collar. I've seen it done, I've seen the dogs very happy, and I've seen the dogs work beautifully even without the collar...but I think that's the exception rather than the norm, and you need to be wary of who is doing it.

Unfortunately, some (NOT ALL) of SMS franchises are not as adept with the methods as you would like to see...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby mnp13 » May 1st, 2009, 10:30 am

TheRedQueen wrote:Ugh. :nono:


pitbullmamaliz wrote:I really dislike SMS.


SisMorphine wrote:Run. Far. And Fast. Run.


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Postby BritneyP » May 1st, 2009, 11:13 am

katiek0417 wrote:Don't get me wrong, Jody...Fred Hassen (owner of SMS) is a very nice guy, and friend of Greg's. However, I have seen dogs that associates of his (he franchises out) have trained...and I haven't liked what I've seen...This isn't true for all of his franchisees...but some...

There are ways to train a dog with an e-collar. I've seen it done, I've seen the dogs very happy, and I've seen the dogs work beautifully even without the collar...but I think that's the exception rather than the norm, and you need to be wary of who is doing it.

Unfortunately, some (NOT ALL) of SMS franchises are not as adept with the methods as you would like to see...


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Postby plebayo » May 3rd, 2009, 9:45 pm

What exactly is an e-collar? When I googled SMS I found quite a few negative reviews on the method of training and someone said it was a shock collar. Is that so?

Personally I don't mind using a shock collar to curb a problem, IE: one of my dogs is a chicken killer and with the use of a shock collar she no longer has any desire to even look at a chicken, or go in the pen. But I don't like the idea of zapping a dog to make them perform basic commands...
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Postby katiek0417 » May 3rd, 2009, 10:16 pm

plebayo wrote:What exactly is an e-collar? When I googled SMS I found quite a few negative reviews on the method of training and someone said it was a shock collar. Is that so?

Personally I don't mind using a shock collar to curb a problem, IE: one of my dogs is a chicken killer and with the use of a shock collar she no longer has any desire to even look at a chicken, or go in the pen. But I don't like the idea of zapping a dog to make them perform basic commands...


e-collars can be referred to as "shock" collars, however, that name usage has really fallen out of popularity due to it's negative connotation.

Please understand that "zapping" the dog for being a chicken killer and using it to train basic commands are very different in terms of methods. VERY different.
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby TheRedQueen » May 3rd, 2009, 10:20 pm

[quote="katiek0417]Please understand that "zapping" the dog for being a chicken killer and using it to train basic commands are very different in terms of methods. VERY different.[/quote]

How so? :?
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Postby pitbullmamaliz » May 4th, 2009, 7:23 am

Because when you're trying to extinguish a behavior like that you are going to use a much higher level. When teaching obedience (at least the way I was taught), you are using it a crazy low level (I couldn't even feel it on the level Inara was using it on) and my trainer likened it to a tap on the shoulder - "hey, I'm talking to you, pay attention to me." When I was working with that trainer Inara was happy - head and ears up, tail/butt wagging, prancing around, etc. My trainer said the best way to find the level to train obedience on is to start at level 1 (again, my collar has 127 levels) and go up one level at a time until your dog blinks, or twitches an ear or looks around like, "hey, what was that?"

Trust me, I used to be so anti e-collar, but now I think that in the right hands they are fantastic training tools. I only stopped using mine because I wasn't comfortable using it without frequent trainer assistance, but my e-collar trainer lives a state away.
"Remember - every time your dog gets somewhere on a tight leash *a fairy dies and it's all your fault.* Think of the fairies." http://www.positivepetzine.com"

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Postby TheRedQueen » May 4th, 2009, 9:28 am

pitbullmamaliz wrote:Because when you're trying to extinguish a behavior like that you are going to use a much higher level. When teaching obedience (at least the way I was taught), you are using it a crazy low level (I couldn't even feel it on the level Inara was using it on) and my trainer likened it to a tap on the shoulder - "hey, I'm talking to you, pay attention to me." When I was working with that trainer Inara was happy - head and ears up, tail/butt wagging, prancing around, etc. My trainer said the best way to find the level to train obedience on is to start at level 1 (again, my collar has 127 levels) and go up one level at a time until your dog blinks, or twitches an ear or looks around like, "hey, what was that?"

Trust me, I used to be so anti e-collar, but now I think that in the right hands they are fantastic training tools. I only stopped using mine because I wasn't comfortable using it without frequent trainer assistance, but my e-collar trainer lives a state away.


Okay, I'm not trying to start an argument...but this just seems like the same method, just a lower level on the collar. I understand how you're using the collars for both things...but Katrina mentioned that the methods are very different. You're using an aversive for both, you're trying to get rid of a behavior. I'm still curious how they're very different. :|
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Postby katiek0417 » May 4th, 2009, 9:35 am

TheRedQueen wrote:[


Level of correction used
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Postby katiek0417 » May 4th, 2009, 9:37 am

TheRedQueen wrote:
pitbullmamaliz wrote:Because when you're trying to extinguish a behavior like that you are going to use a much higher level. When teaching obedience (at least the way I was taught), you are using it a crazy low level (I couldn't even feel it on the level Inara was using it on) and my trainer likened it to a tap on the shoulder - "hey, I'm talking to you, pay attention to me." When I was working with that trainer Inara was happy - head and ears up, tail/butt wagging, prancing around, etc. My trainer said the best way to find the level to train obedience on is to start at level 1 (again, my collar has 127 levels) and go up one level at a time until your dog blinks, or twitches an ear or looks around like, "hey, what was that?"

Trust me, I used to be so anti e-collar, but now I think that in the right hands they are fantastic training tools. I only stopped using mine because I wasn't comfortable using it without frequent trainer assistance, but my e-collar trainer lives a state away.


Okay, I'm not trying to start an argument...but this just seems like the same method, just a lower level on the collar. I understand how you're using the collars for both things...but Katrina mentioned that the methods are very different. You're using an aversive for both, you're trying to get rid of a behavior. I'm still curious how they're very different. :|


Nope, not trying to necessarily get rid of a behavior...trying to motivate the dog to do a behavior - using negative reinforcement - with that you are trying to increase a behavior, not decrease...

You use VERY different levels for both. Extinguishing a behavior uses a higher level than motivating a behavior.

There is already a discussion of this on here (I'll try to find it)...
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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Postby mnp13 » May 4th, 2009, 9:38 am

TheRedQueen wrote:Okay, I'm not trying to start an argument...but this just seems like the same method, just a lower level on the collar. I understand how you're using the collars for both things...but Katrina mentioned that the methods are very different. You're using an aversive for both, you're trying to get rid of a behavior. I'm still curious how they're very different. :|


For me it's like giving a serious spanking to a kid for playing with matches. You get the point across as quickly and severely as you can so that there isn't any gray area. "Do that and you'll be in a world of crap." You're not "training it out of them" you're making it more than clear that the behavior is the last think they will ever want to do again.

You're trying to create avoidance, unlike when you use an e-collar for obedience - where you want happy compliance.

All that said, I have a serious problem with escape training; it teaches the dog what not to do instead of teaching it to think.
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Postby TheRedQueen » May 4th, 2009, 9:52 am

Gotcha...okay, I'm getting the point now. :wink:

I wasn't seeing it as trying to increase behavior with regards to obedience...I see now. :dance:
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Postby katiek0417 » May 4th, 2009, 10:00 am

Yep, just negative reinforcement!
"Rumor has it, compulsion is evil."

Katrina
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Nisha CGC, PDC, PSA TC, PSA 1 - Crazy Malinois
Drusilla SLUT- Pet
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