Postby tybrax » July 31st, 2010, 10:50 pm

Qld rules staffies not same as pit bullsAAP July 31, 2010, 11:36 am 5 CommentsBuzz up! Send
http://au.news.yahoo.com/a/-/local/7679 ... pit-bulls/

Queensland will amend its Animal Management Act to clarify that American Staffordshire terriers are not restricted dogs, contrary to a recent court ruling.

The move follows a Queensland Supreme Court case in April which ruled that an American Staffordshire terrier (Amstaff) involved in a case on the Gold was the same as the restricted American Pit Bull terrier breed.

Local Government Minister Desley Boyle said pit bulls had been prohibited by many Queensland councils under their local laws, listed as restricted under state legislation and banned from importation by the Commonwealth.

"The amendment will state categorically that for the purposes of the Act, Amstaffs will not be considered the same as the restricted pit bulls," Ms Boyle said.

She said there were an estimated 4,000 Amstaffs in Queensland, some 230 on the Gold Coast.

"This will give Amstaff owners, especially on the Gold Coast, certainty about their rights and obligations," she said.

"Yet it will give Queenslanders peace of mind that the legislation's tough penalties remain for irresponsible pet owners whose dogs cause fear or harm," she said.

Minsterial Statement.

Minister for Local Government and Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Partnerships
The Honourable Desley Boyle
Saturday, July 31, 2010

Confusion over American Staffies no longer: Minister

Local Government Minister Desley Boyle has today announced she will amend the Animal Management (Cats and Dogs) Act 2008 to clarify once and for all that American Staffordshire terriers are not classified as “restricted dogs”.

This follows a Supreme Court case in April, Gold Coast City Council v. Chivers, which ruled the Amstaff involved was the same as a restricted American Pit bull.

Ms Boyle said pit bulls have been prohibited by many Queensland Councils under their local laws, listed as “restricted” under State legislation and banned from importation by the Commonwealth.

There are an estimated 4,000 Amstaffs in Queensland, some 230 on the Gold Coast.

“The amendment will state categorically that for the purposes of the Act, Amstaffs will not be considered the same as the restricted pit bulls,” Ms Boyle said.

“This will give Amstaff owners especially on the Gold Coast certainty about their rights and obligations yet it will give Queenslanders peace of mind that the legislation’s tough penalties remain for irresponsible pet owners whose dogs cause fear or harm,” she said.

“While it was never the State’s intention for the Act to classify Amstaffs as restricted dogs, the recent court case has meant the amendment is now necessary.”

It is generally accepted among experts that Amstaffs and pit bulls descended from Staffordshire bull terrier-type dogs however the restricted pit bulls were bred specifically as fighting animals.
Amstaffs on the other hand were bred almost exclusively as show and companion dogs, widely
recognised as trainable and family-friendly pets.

Amstaffs are even used as therapy dogs including in hospitals. Well-known Brisbane Amstaff Nudie, owned by Mrs Melissa Greenall, visits aged-care facilities, special care and children’s wards.

“Importantly the proposed amendment to the legislation will not compromise community safety as owners of all dogs, including Amstaff owners, will be held accountable for the behaviour of their charges,” said the Minister.

“The same rules apply to all dog owners and you will feel the full weight of the law if your dog behaves badly or causes harm.”

If a dog bites someone, Ms Boyle said a fine of up to $30,000 can apply under the Act and the dog can be seized by Council and declared as dangerous.

“If a dog bails someone up on the street, a fine of $2,000 can apply and Council can declare the animal as menacing,” she said.

“Special provisions apply to animals declared as dangerous or menacing, such as fencing, muzzling and kennel requirements.

“I take this opportunity to thank Dogs Queensland President Barry Vickers in particularly and his team who have worked with departmental officers in sorting out the confusions flowing from the recent court decision and this amendment will put the matter to rest.”

Media contact: Minister Boyle’s Office – 0428 199 933

Tango's transcripts......

http://archive.sclqld.org.au/qjudgment/ ... 10-098.pdf

Congratulations to John and Kylie and team on a job well done.

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Postby ArtGypsy » August 1st, 2010, 9:00 am

Horray for the AmStaffs and Their Owners. :dance: :dance: :dance:

But I'm Totally Confused....I thought AmStaffs fall under the category of "Pit Bulls", or Bully Breeds.

But I"m the "UN-Expert-Extraordinaire, so if any of the Folks-Who-Know have a moment to explain it to me, Please Do....I'm simply Curious..... :|
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Postby plebayo » November 7th, 2010, 12:09 pm

I talked to a staffy breeder I met a while ago and the example she gave me is that Pit Bulls and Amstaffs all originated from the same place, that some people like to consider Amstaffs less 'game bred' more of a 'show type' vs a Pit Bull who is more 'game bred' and more of a 'working type'. I think it could be comparative to American bred show line GSDs vs German Working bred GSDs. They are all the same dog but there's usually some size and temperament differences.

In the eyes of UKC they are the same breed. People who are apart of AKC feel that the lines between American Staffordshire Terriers and Pit Bulls have been separated for so long that they are not the same.

For me, when a client comes in claiming they have a Staffordshire Terrier I take it with a grain of salt because IMO it's a Pit Bull unless it has papers saying it's a Staffy. A lot of people try to move from the pit label and use the Staffy label trying to fool insurance and such, or they got the dog from the shelter and think they have some "rare breed". I think the breed is basically the same but again, unless your dog has papers saying otherwise, it's just a pit to me.

I guess it's kind of cool for Staffy owners, but lame because Pit Bulls do therapy work too, and they're basically the same type of dog, just different breed names. I know if my parents saw a Staffy they would think it was a Pit Bull... to the average person there isn't a difference so I think it's lame they're trying to say one breed is okay over the other. Staffy's are just as powerful as Pits and they can be just as prey driven, they're still terriers!
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Postby mnp13 » November 7th, 2010, 8:04 pm

ArtGypsy wrote:Horray for the AmStaffs and Their Owners. :dance: :dance: :dance:

But I'm Totally Confused....I thought AmStaffs fall under the category of "Pit Bulls", or Bully Breeds.

But I"m the "UN-Expert-Extraordinaire, so if any of the Folks-Who-Know have a moment to explain it to me, Please Do....I'm simply Curious..... :|

Basically, it means that if you have "papers" then the dogs won't die. If it's not "papered" to prove that it's an AmStaff, then it's just a Pit Bull and it falls under BSL - i.e. you'll lose your dog. The AKC puppy millers have to be ecstatic.

plebayo wrote:Staffy's are just as powerful as Pits and they can be just as prey driven, they're still terriers!

And Riggs is dual registered, from one of the oldest AKC lines - well, UKC to start of course. I'm firmly in the "same breed" camp, have been for a loooong time.

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Postby tybrax » November 7th, 2010, 9:24 pm

Amstaffs are not on the list in Qld the law was changed on the 30th Septmeber 2010.The ruling was overturned by the Gov thanks to tango's family and team.

do not fall under "pit Bull" here, Overseas they do..

They are free!! They must be registered with the ANKC if not a vet certificate to state there breed, this will not work as l myself had a vet certificate for my girl back in 2003 and they council refuse to except it.They refuse to except a vet certificate in a Court case at Logan. he vet was also a witness.

my girl story.

http://www.victimsofbsl.com/index.php?o ... &Itemid=58
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Postby AllAmericanPUP » November 8th, 2010, 1:25 pm

definitely the same breed.

For them to be different breeds would mean that something else went into the creation of the AST and since nothing else did..that means they are still indeed pit bulls.
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Postby tybrax » November 8th, 2010, 8:36 pm

Totally agree same blood same genetic's!!

First batch of costs for the GCCC FOI report Tango's case..

I have the first batch of copies of invoices from the GCCC, on what they have spent on lawyers keeping Tango (an american Staffordshire terrier) out of the state of Qld.

17 May 2005 King & Company $1,303.50
10 Oct 2005 King & Company $7,271.00
28/8/2007 Ramsden Fees $9,982.80
28/9/2007 Ramsden Fees $15,258.56
8/11/2007 Ramsden Fees $16,016.01
7/1/2008 Ramsden Fees $15,367.25
29/2/2008 Ramsden Fees $4,314.49
18/3/2008 Ramsden Fees $343.75
30/4/2009 Ransden Bow $198.00
29/5/2009 King & Company $11,594.00
26/6/2009 King & Company $2,640.00
6/7/2009 King & Company $8,222.50
31/7/2009 King & Company $616,00
5/10/2009 King & Company $506.00
30/11/2009 King & Company $1,613.50
29/1/2010 King & Company $341.00
26/2/2010 King & Company $209.00
6/4/2010 King & Company $37,900.50
30/4/2010 King & Company $2,425.50

Total $136,123.36
This is the first batch of invoices, the GCCC are still looking for the rest, still, this is a hell of a lot of ratepayers money spent to fund a vendetta from the management from Animal Control for embarrassing them by exposing their activity's of falsifying the identification of suspected restricted dogs.

Was the ratepayers money spent wisely to have any gains what so ever....no!

I have a Vert's Certificate that states Tango is an American Staffordshire terrier, but this is the best part, the verts Cert if based on documentation I have supplied him which is what the GCCC has had for 6 1/2 years, and what the Supreme Court Judge had that was the basis of his ruling that Tango was an Amstaff.

Here is a list of the 57 pages that prove that Tango is an Amstaf:

Page No.

Description, information highlighted.

Photo’s of both parents of Tango, the litter sister of Tango’s mother Miss Maudi, Photo’s of Tango and his brother Harley.

Information regarding Tango.

Photo’s of Tango.

Microchip application for Tango dated 23/04/2003, breed, American Staffordshire terrier. Microchip No: 981098100128206

Certificate of desexing, dated 23/04/2003, being a male brindle and white American staffy dog by Dr Yvonne Marshall-Lee BVSc. M.S

Tango’s GCCC registration papers, note proof of desexing was presented with the microchip paperwork showing Tangos breed as an American Staffordshire terrier; however the GCCC registered his breed as Stafford Bull Terrier.

Information on Tango’s Mother: Jessie. Owned by Darren Burns.

The Pet Barn Nerang, Animal Health Guarantee. Breed American Staffordshire terrier.

Jessie’s GCCC registration papers, dated 18/08/2003: Breed : American Staffordshire terrier

Jessie’s Certificate of desexing: dated 3/11/1999, Dr John Gilmore. Breed American Staffordshire terrier

Letter to the NT Canine Association Inc trying to obtain information of the breeder of Jessie and her litter sister Miss Maudi, owned by Justin Westaway.

The reply from NT Canine Association Inc, the address and name of the breeder, breeder unable to be found.

An attempt was made to get Jessie registered with the CCCQ, however dogs cannot be registered after they are 18 months old, however the letter confirms Jessie is an Amstaff.

Affidavit from Darren Burns, owner of Jessie, which was tabled in the Supreme Court in Chivers Vs GCCC, affidavit was accepted unchallenged.

Information on Zeus, Tango’s father, owned by Julie Morris.

Receipt of purchase of Zeus, from Pets Paradise Tweed Heads. dated 8/04/2000, Breed American Staffordshire terrier.

Letter from the Manager of Pets Paradise, Tweed Heads: Sharon Uttridge, stating that she has never sold an American Pit Bull terrier.

GC Bulletin 17/11/2006, Julie Morris prepared to go to the Supreme Court to prove her dog Zeus is not an American Pit bull terrier but an American Staffordshire terrier

After suffering a break down and the break up of her marriage of over 20 years due to the stress put on her by the GCCC and spending over $20,000.00 on legals, Julie Morris agreed under a secret contract to withdraw from the Supreme Court. In return, the GCCC will make out her dog does not exist and can live on the Gold Coast/Qld unhindered, without restrictions for the rest of his natural life. Zeus is not a restricted dog (Pit bull terrier)

Affidavit from Julie Morris owner of Zeus, Tango’s father, explaining the events that took place. Affidavit was accepted unchallenged

Page No.
Description, information highlighted.

Information on Jessie’s litter sister Miss Maudi owned by Justin Westaway.

A letter from Justin Westaway confirming Darren Burns brought a puppy from him and he also did the same and registered his with the CCCQ.

A photo from Justin Westerway’s business card of his dog Miss Maudi when she was a puppy, and a copy of him and his dog from a Qld Governments information training manual showing what an American Staffordshire terrier should look like (Miss Maudi)

Certificate of Registration and Pedigree of Miss Maudi, litter sister of Jessie, Tango’s mother.

Affidavit of Justin Westaway from the Supreme Court, Chivers Vs GCCC. The affidavit was accepted unchallenged. A copy of the Queensland Governments “Guidelines for identification, page 7 showing what an American Staffordshire terrier should look like, Photo was confirmed to be Miss Maudi and Justin Westaway at a dog show wearing his lucky socks.

The results from a DNA parentage Canine Test, from Genetic Technologies, Vic showing positively that Tango was sired from Jessie and Zeus.

Affidavit from Melanie Clarke, Senior Scientist from Genetic Technologies, affidavit was accepted unchallenged.

Supreme Court Of Qld ruling Chivers Vs GCCC

Kylie Chivers went to court to prove three things:

1) That Tango is an American Staffordshire terrier.

2) That the method of identification used by the GCCC, the 22 point checklist is false.

3) That an Animal Control Officers under the rules of law are not experts in dog breed identification.

Our case/evidence was all accepted without challenge so is now a matter of fact under the Supreme Court Rule “res judicata”. What we did not expect was that the GCCC would enter a new submission at the end of the trial doing a complete back flip, reversing their stand willingly undoing all previous trials, now taking the stand that an Amstaff and a Pit bull terrier are the same breed. We had 10 minutes to come up with a defence.

The judge had no option but to rule on the evidence before him, but knowing what the GCCC had done was wrong, would not award any costs in favour to the GCCC.

The Qld Government’s Local Government Minister, the Hon Desley Boyle, had no other option but to reverse the Judges ruling on the Amstaff/Pit bull finding and set the law that an Amstaff and a Pit bull terrier were two different breeds of dogs in Qld. This was backdated to the trial date.

This amendment also gave power for a Veterinarian to issue a Vert Cert as to the breed of a dog being an American Staffordshire terrier, Section 63A(1)(d).

As Tango had to live in NSW and be registered to a resident in NSW, ownership had to be transferred to someone in NSW, Kylie Chivers’ step father owns a property in NSW, so ownership in name only was arranged so Tango could abide Tweed Heads Local laws and be registered in NSW.

Tango is registered in NSW as an American Staffordshire terrier for $35.00 as a Desexed Brindle and White male American Staffordshire terrier.

A stat declaration has been signed stating the arrangement between Kylie Chivers and her step father and the ownership of Tango.

This is the first lot of Freedom On Information report on Tango's case. We are waiting for part 2 to arrive..

One must feel for the poor rate payers, considering the Judge ordered the council to pay cost's..

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