Hypothetical Question Regarding Foster Homes

[LMM]

I can email ours to you if you give me your email address. I don't know how to put it up here.

[TheRedQueen]

These people are crazy...and I'm guessing that they have ill-treated/neglected dogs/animals on the property too.

I have people come to my house all of the time, potential adopters, clients, etc. There are certain places I'd prefer they not poke into...but that's because I don't need them seeing my piles of dirty laundry, unmade beds, etc. Not because I have horrendous things in my house or yard.

[BigDogBuford]

These people are crazy...and I'm guessing that they have ill-treated/neglected dogs/animals on the property too.

And a house made out of human skulls.

[TheRedQueen]

These people are crazy...and I'm guessing that they have ill-treated/neglected dogs/animals on the property too.

And a house made out of human skulls.

Well, I mean I have that myself...but it's decorated nicely, and I keep it clean...so I don't mind people seeing *that*. It's the piles of laundry that I have a problem with people seeing.

[BigDogBuford]

I just started naming my piles of dirty laundry. Now they're just part of the family.

[TheRedQueen]

I just started naming my piles of dirty laundry. Now they're just part of the family.

Oooh...good idea!

[BigDogBuford]

I name my stubborn zits, too. The last one was Ponch.

[mnp13]

They need to have all of their dogs pulled. Now.

Demo is also a "very private person" I'm not allowed to invite people before I clear it with him (first time anyway.) His level of comfort with people is different than mine, so I go by what he wants in that department.

HOWEVER, when you work with a rescue home visits are expected.

I agree with adopters not coming to your home, that wouldn't be comfortable either, but the people you are working with (because I think rescue is a job)? No.

[DemoDick]

Situations like these are very dependent on state/local law, so this post is pretty broad in scope.

If you don't have documentation satisfactory to *prove* that ownership of the dog lies with someone who isn't the crappy foster home, there's really no way LE can force them to give the dog up. As to what satisfactory proof actually is, that depends on what the LEO who responds determines it is. There are very broad discretionary powers in most cases like this. Best to have as much paperwork as possible. And also have a plan B and C.

Does the local Humane Society have LEO's? Will the vet contact them? Is there enough neglect going on to convince them to be prepared to seize the animals and possibly charge the foster people? And what happens to the dogs in that case?

Basically what you want is to get the dogs out of that situation as quickly as possible, and the best way to do that is to Jedi mind-trick the foster owners into giving up the dogs willingly.

Demo Dick

[BigDogBuford]

There may be no neglect going on what so ever but we don't know that because they won't allow any rescue people there. All I know is that they have 17 dogs, 10 personal and 7 rescue dogs. How on Earth do two people take care of 17 dogs? Especially when most of them are puppies and require so much training, socializing and stuff. I think they work from home, but still. Roscoe's has 20 kennels and when we're full we require 24 (or more) 'man hours' per day to get everything done with the proper amount of face time with each dog.

[mnp13]

Didn't you see her email???

Dogs are out of their crates every two hours. That is ENRICHMENT!

[BigDogBuford]

Didn't you see her email???

Dogs are out of their crates every two hours. That is ENRICHMENT!

I don't get that statement either because supposedly she has a super deluxe kennel set up in her garage. Why are they in crates then?

[BigDogBuford]

This is all so ridiculous, but I'm just so impressed with the sheer amount of words she used. Here is the rest of the email string if you care to read on.

The reply to her:
XXXXXXXXX,

I forwarded your message to XXXXXX. I understand your concern for privacy, I have the same concerns. However, I also understood that when I was fostering or adopting a dog from an organization that they had a right to do a home check, just like we do when we send a dog out into their new home.

Oh, and XXXXXX is the one that wanted me to go out there and get to know you better. Trust me I have three jobs, not a lot of time and much better things to do in my free time.

Hope the snow isn't causing too much trouble for you,
XXXXXXX

**************************************************************

And her reply to the above:
wow, you don't have a lot of spare time if you have 3 jobs and you help run XXXX. here's the deal. I never had a home check with XXX (as you know I was with them before) but had given hefty donations and spent a lot of time with their dogs when they were in boarding. I think they felt they knew XX and I well enough that they trusted us. You only have to go online and plug in our address and you can see it is a decent home sitting on wooded and private land. XX said if he had to have a home check to adopt a dog, he wouldn't get the dog... thank goodness our adopters are not like him! Anyway, when I first took in pups from XXXXXX I think her thinking was that if I had been good enough for XXX, able to get a kennel license and have surprise visits from Animal Control that I must have a decent set up. I don't think she ever asked to come out here but if she had done, it would have been the same.... XX won't have it. He is a reclusive, extremely private individual and that is the way it is. I have to respect that because I want to keep saving dogs and he funds that. it is his cc that pays the vet bills, it is his money that buys the food, etc

Anyway, I will not return to XXXXXXXXX Vet. I am extremely disappointed in their actions. They were nothing but positive to XX about Elliot and apparently not so to you. Elliot is so much better than he was. I am taking him to see XXXXXX on Saturday, not that she saw him when his mange was bad but I called her in distress one night because he was a bloody mess from scratching his mange so much and I had no clue how to make him comfortable.

I talked with XX a little about the situation and needless to say he is pissed off. He said he was warned a long time ago that most of the women in rescue were a bunch of witches and he does not need to deal with any of it. He said he will continue to support me in any way he can as he knows saving dogs is very important to me but he will not put up with the 'he said, she said' and he will not be questioned about how he is with any dog. he knows he is good with dogs and so do I. in fact, he is very good with dogs. You are welcome to call any of the people at XXX and ask what they think of XX. they will tell you he is bossy with me but great with our dogs. you can ask any one who has adopted from us what they thought of XX with the dogs... he is very hands on at the meet and greets and helps with the intro if there are dogs or cats in the home. He has been around dogs and horses all his life and is rather good at reading dogs.

I hope this "conversation" helps calm your worries but if not, it is up to you and the other co founders of XXXX to let me know that I can no longer foster for you and I will understand. You have your rules and guidelines.

I don't know how much of my involvement you are aware of but I have paid the way for my fosters and then some and drive wherever is needed to do a meet and greet ... except XX won't go as far as Olympia. We have been as far afield as Yelm and Darrington and anywhere in between and XX provides the gas as well as doing the driving as I am a terrible driver!

He feels that anyone who thinks it is OK to question the way we are with dogs in our care is way out of line and that we should be getting thanks instead of grief.

Anyway, I have said all I need to say on this. I don't work 3 jobs, I just help XX run our company, but I do have 17 dogs here right now (10 are XXXX fosters) and I do have teens at home still and we are in the middle of a large remodel and so I have way too much to do!

************************************

Even better, 10 fosters!

[madremissy]

Even better, 10 fosters!

This story keeps getting scarier and scarier.

[BigDogBuford]

The reply to her:

XXXXXXXXX,

I don't think I've acted like a 'witch'. I got a call from my vet about one of XXXX's foster dogs and spoke with my co-founder about it. I don't really care about you or XX to be frank. I care about the dog and my rescue organizations name and reputation. There may be a lot witches in rescue but there are also a lot of self important douche bags.

I'm stepping away from this situation as well as XXXX. I hope you're happy with the outcome. Please refrain from sending me any further correspondence in the future.

XXXXXXX

***************************

And she responded with:

I am not at all happy about the outcome and I wish it had not come to this. I am really sorry you are stepping down. I will make this my last correspondence but I wanted to say that I hope you have some good days with XXXXXX... my heart goes out to you. And I am truly sorry it came to this. I had a choice, giving in to your wishes or upsetting XX and him banning me from rescuing anymore, as he would do. **I edited some personal stuff out** XXXXXXX, I never wanted to upset you, antagonize you or cause any problem at XXXX. That is so far from what I want. I hope you will take a little break to be with your pup and then come back as I am sure that XXXX will miss you greatly. Maybe we can become friends one day as I know most people in rescue are good people. I do not think you have been a witch in any way, shape or form... that statement was something that XX said and I think he feels that we were part of a witch hunt. Take care and please do not be angry with me. I just want to stop as many dogs as possible from dying. I am going to call the Vet today and see what I can glean, I talked with XX and he has no clue what I am talking about regarding his last visit there with Elliot.
**********

The BEST outcome ever would be if someone went over there and it was as nice as it's supposed to be. Hopefully it will all work out the best for everyone, especially the pups. I got to check out a foster home contract, which seems like an important thing and I'd never really given it thought before this. So that's a good lesson learned.

[mnp13]

Get those dogs out NOW.

Rescue is a business, part of that business is knowing where the dogs are. You're not asking them to host a dinner party, you're requesting an inspection of the living arrangements.

This much "need for privacy" is really a need to hide something.

[karladaune]

All I have to say is that this whole situation has been blown WAY out of proportion. The 'complaint' came from a catty reception chick at the vet's office, NOT from the vet. She apparently doesn't like XXXXXXXXX, thinks shes "a bitch", and felt it would be ok to badmouth her paying client to another client. Her complaint was that when she commented on XXXXXXX being a nice boy, XX responded with "you can have him!" The girl at the counter told the vet she felt like XX did not care about the dog. Seriously? I have made the same joke many times about my own personal dogs AND fosters...does that make me less able to care for them?

Per the vet:
XXXXXXX has shown a 60 to 70% improvement in less than a month. It was just over 3 weeks between visits. There was hair regrowth and he expects that within another two weeks he should be pretty much back to normal.

Vet stated he has no concerns about abuse or neglect or lack of medical care. He has never witnessed any form of unkindness to the dogs whatsoever. He has no issue with XX and XXXXXXXXX as clients and no issue with them returning to his office.

Vet went on to say he has been thrilled with XXXXX's (another dog in the same foster home) recovery from demodex and has been happy with all of the dogs he has seen that have been in their care. He also sees their personal dogs and has no issues.

When an email was sent under false pretenses to said foster home, foster home said no. Foster home is very intuitive and knew that the person making the request didn't care for her in the least, and didn't see why she would want to come over. Her husband is HIGHLY reclusive, but this does not make him bad. Foster home has NOT denied visits from the organization at any time, just from one person she didn't feel comfortable having in her home. Foster home HAS agreed to allow the people she knows and is comfortable with to come for a visit.

I am HIGHLY disappointed in all of this. This is an incredibly slanted thread that totally undermines the hard work and dedication of ALL of our volunteers. Instead of handling it like an adult and allowing the director of the organization to handle things (which she WAS doing but apparently not in a timely enough fashion for you), you react like a junior high school bully which helps NO ONE.

[Violet]

A. The foster home IS, in fact, under contract. As ALL of our foster homes are with the exception of the founding four and Karla because she came in so early in the rescue. We actually hand out applications at events. Jeanine you should already know this. We also have our foster parent workforms which are on our website. Have been for a couple of years.

B. foster home has a seperate status sheet and I have copies of those sheets for each dog in her care. Stating the dogs belong to our rescue. We do this for all of our foster dogs except for Jeanines.

C. the dogs do not live in crates like it is isaid. They are custom made by her husband and more like small indoor kennels (6x10) for each dog. The foster is very very british and there are occasional translation issues Also a note on how one can care for that many kenneled dogs, don't forget, not all of the dogs are in the kennels. There are those who live full time in the house as well.

D. lets see..person that you KNOW does not like you suddenly wants to come to your home?

E. I see ********* and usually 3 or 4 of her dogs at a time every single weekend. I have never gone more than a month without seeing any particular dog.

F. yes..********* was overzealous intially. She is under control now. She has not gotten a new dog since October.

G. The Parvo did not come from CA dogs. She HAD no new CA dogs and had not gotten a litter since last summer. She had gotten a couple of singletons. We actually believe the parvo came FROM our vet clinic. She had not gotten a new dog for 4 weeks. (and it was from Moses Lake) but she had recently taken puppies to the vet.

The foster home has been visited by AC more than once. Her set up was called *impressive* for both basics and comfort level of the dogs.

Dept of Ag was also impressed. It far surpassed his expectations.

Her set up and home have also been visited by an extremely high profile animal rights attorney. Who wrote a glowing letter of reference for the facilities and level of care the dogs receive. This attorney was so impressed that they represented ** and ********* pro bono against the previous rescue.

I have NEVER had a complaint about the condition or behavior of any of the dogs that have been in this homes care from any adopters. Correction, there was one complaint. In a year. With many adoptions of their dogs. Our regular vet has nothing but good things to say about them and their dogs. Fosters and personal.

[BigDogBuford]

I spoke to the Dr. directly and that's not what he told me. I really, really hope all of this is true. Vi, I've never heard or seen a foster contract before so that's news to me.

Vi, you're the one that wanted me to go out there and check it out and asked me to do so. It's the last thing I wanted to do so why would you ask if it wasn't necessary? All you need to do is go out there and see the place. Maybe it's fine. That would be the perfect outcome.

Sorry if I'm being a total f-ing bitch about it, but 17 dogs+no home check is insane in my book.

[BigDogBuford]

And if there's a foster contract than that's perfect...they have to let you go out there and check it out. Win/win for everyone! Although with his "need for privacy" I'm surprised they signed a foster contract at all.