There was an incident during transport, now we need guidance

Posts for transport help should all go here. Please title all threads as follows:
Date, Transport start/end, number of dogs
Example:
04/25/2008, Buffalo NY / Boston MA, 4 dogs

All posts should include contact information for the transport coordinator. Please don't post your offer to help on the forum, though we'd love to know if you are helping. Be sure to post pictures from your transport legs!

Postby HappyChick » August 9th, 2010, 3:04 pm

Another shelter volunteer, Dawn, and I have been working to get dogs rescued out of our local shelter. She works with a transport that moves dogs from Quincy, IL to Wisconsin every Saturday. They have several legs and switch the dogs to other vehicles several times during the transport trip. During one of the switches, one of "our" dogs had his collar break and he got loose. Then as two men (one with the transport and one not) attempted to catch him, he bit them both. Now the transport coordinator is acting as though she does not want to transport any more of our dogs, although she has not come right out and said it. She is very worried that this incident will shut down their transport. However, the man with the transport had signed a waiver and the other man is being very nice about the whole incident.

If we are able to continue to use this transport service, Dawn thinks we should muzzle our dogs. I do not think that is a good idea at all. Probably 99.5% of these dogs have never seen a muzzle let alone worn one.

Does anyone on this board have experience with problems like this? If so, can you give us some advice about what to do?

Our shelter does not do temperament testing.

Additionally, if this dog had shown any aggression issues, he would have been put down at the shelter. When the dog got to his rescue destination, the director of the rescue evaluated him. She says he is not aggressive at all, just indifferent to humans. I sensed something about him that I didn't think was "right", but I didn't say anything because Dawn is so adamant about saving them all plus like I said, he had not shown any aggression.

HELP!
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby BigDogBuford » August 9th, 2010, 3:59 pm

Honestly, those indifferent dogs sometimes freak me out more than outright aggression. When I'm choosing dogs, I want to see "OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU SO MUCH MY BUTT IS WAGGING A MILE A MINUTE" not "I could care less if you're around". Sometimes that's just shelter shock but it's a red flag for me and I would choose a different dog.
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby BigDogBuford » August 9th, 2010, 5:09 pm

I should also add that running around and trying to catch a scared dog is also a sure way to get bitten. :cry:
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby Marinepits » August 9th, 2010, 6:20 pm

BigDogBuford wrote:I should also add that running around and trying to catch a scared dog is also a sure way to get bitten. :cry:


I agree 1,000%.
Never make someone a priority in your life when that someone treats you like an option.
User avatar
Marinepits
Proud Infidel
 
Posts: 15621
Location: New England

Postby ArtGypsy » August 9th, 2010, 6:38 pm

Marinepits wrote:
BigDogBuford wrote:I should also add that running around and trying to catch a scared dog is also a sure way to get bitten. :cry:


I agree 1,000%.



I can see this as being 100% true......but I can also see myself RUNNING around after a Scared Escaped Dog, Just Because I'm scared to death and not sure how to get him back....
What's a good way to catch a dog in a situation like THIS... :?

I may need to know someday.
Seriously.
“Hope has two beautiful daughters: their names are Anger and Courage.
Anger that things are the way they are.
Courage to make them the way they ought to be.”----Augustine
User avatar
ArtGypsy
First I Caught Her, Then I Didn't Share My Fries
 
Posts: 946
Location: Eastern Nebraska

Postby HappyChick » August 9th, 2010, 10:00 pm

Yes, I agree about running around trying to catch a dog. ESPECIALLY one that has been couped up in a pen for weeks and then is put in a box for hours in the back of a vehicle with a bunch of other dogs. Can you say FREEDOM???

Here are the suggestions I came up with:

Carry a catch pole
Have a big bag of treats
Carry a slab of raw meat
Use a choke collar when taking a dog from the crate in one vehicle to the crate in another, that way it can be slipped off the dog's head when placed in the crate.

Those are all I could think of and that is why I posed the question here. I would like answers from experienced folks.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby BigDogBuford » August 10th, 2010, 12:17 am

I will usually try crouching down, sideways to the dog and scratch at something on the ground with a finger. Lots of baby talk and trying to look non-threatening. Of course if the dog is panicked and bolts you could try a catch pole or blanket but dogs are really good at keep away. If it's a goofy dog that's just gotten away you can try running in the opposite like you're playing the most fun game ever. Labs and Boxers normally fall for that one and run right to you.
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby iluvk9 » August 10th, 2010, 6:09 am

When I was working at a shelter, and we had a loose dog on the street, I was taught to grab a can of smelly cat food. If you can get close enough, you pop the top on the can, and the dog might be interested.
iluvk9
I'm Cougarific!
 
Posts: 14900
Location: New York

Postby PetieMarie22 » August 10th, 2010, 11:08 am

HappyChick wrote:Yes, I agree about running around trying to catch a dog. ESPECIALLY one that has been couped up in a pen for weeks and then is put in a box for hours in the back of a vehicle with a bunch of other dogs. Can you say FREEDOM???

Here are the suggestions I came up with:

Carry a catch pole
Have a big bag of treats
Carry a slab of raw meat
Use a choke collar when taking a dog from the crate in one vehicle to the crate in another, that way it can be slipped off the dog's head when placed in the crate.

Those are all I could think of and that is why I posed the question here. I would like answers from experienced folks.


I think those are all great ideas. I was thinking the same thing Jeanine and everyone else.
I was actually chasing a dog around my complex a few days ago and the dog was just about to run across a busy street. I couldn't watch him get hit. As I grabbed him by his collar, I braced myself. Luckily it didn't happen, but I thought it was common sense, try to grab a strange dog that is all worked up and scared in the first place - it may bite you! I might bite someone I didn't know if they tried to grab me!
Kathleen (and George)
Petie Marie - spoiled rotten Pit Bull Terrier
Sunshine Honeysuckle Smith - DSH cat that lives under the couch
Sasha Marie - Bombay Mix = DIVA
User avatar
PetieMarie22
Hyper Adolescent Bully
 
Posts: 270
Location: Rochester NY

Postby TheRedQueen » August 10th, 2010, 11:47 pm

As for transports...I haven't done any for a while...but I did some really long distance ones in the past (VA/MD to IN/IL) I had a dog get away from me at at gas station once, in the middle of Ohio...where I knew NO ONE. Luckily I got him back easily. Big white GSD.

But after that...I always do a few things with fosters/transports/boarding dogs that I travel with. 1. martingale collars or slip collars...no buckle collars that can break. 2. Double collars, double leashes 3. Leash the dog while crated (unless the dog will chew the lead)...and clip the leash to the crate with a carbiner. If you can't leave the leash on the dog, have it hooked to the crate anyway, so once it gets clipped on, you have a back-up 4. I carabiner the crate shut too...or bungee cord it shut. I buy cheap martingales or slip collars, and stay stocked up on them...so they can travel with the dog during the transport...I've had many dogs come with loose-fitting collars, or no collars. I just put a new one on and send the dog with it.

The dog that got loose on me escaped when his crate wasn't properly shut...and wiggled open during the trip...when I opened the back hatch, he pushed the crate door open and jumped out. If the dogs aren't crated, they are tethered into the car/van somehow...with a strong martingale collar and leash.

As for catching loose dogs...I always carry slip leads (I use Liz's slip leads all of the time!)...and some really smelly, soft dog treats...things I can toss if I need to. Read up on body language, so you know what your body is saying to the dog. Also...knowing body language will help you relax so you don't appear so tense to the dog. ;)
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby dlynne1123 » August 11th, 2010, 9:03 pm

Sometimes using another dog you know is not DA will help lure them closer for some food. CLose enough for a catch pole. I would never reach for or corner a scared rescue dog. They don't have as much people exposure as we all hope. And they are practically acting feral when they are scared.
Ryder - Rescue APBT
Panser on a Roll - APBT (American Bully?)
Gretchen - the red headed cat that thinks shes a dog
Prudence - the new cat on the block to put the dogs in their place!
Punchlines Better Than Lojac - APBT (RIP)
User avatar
dlynne1123
Hyper Adolescent Bully
 
Posts: 289
Location: New England

Postby HappyChick » August 14th, 2010, 10:28 am

Thanks for the input, everyone!

The transport is going to continue to take our dogs, BUT they don't want to deal with any more of our pit bull type dogs unless the dog is crated for the entire trip. That means no potty breaks and probably no food or water refills for 8-10 hours. Prejudice within our ranks. I'm sorely disappointed.

I will pass the information on that I received here and see if it helps.

Thanks again.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby PetieMarie22 » August 14th, 2010, 12:30 pm

Cause they think only pit bull type dogs bite when they are scared? Aren't these people that work around and with dogs?
Kathleen (and George)
Petie Marie - spoiled rotten Pit Bull Terrier
Sunshine Honeysuckle Smith - DSH cat that lives under the couch
Sasha Marie - Bombay Mix = DIVA
User avatar
PetieMarie22
Hyper Adolescent Bully
 
Posts: 270
Location: Rochester NY

Postby HappyChick » August 14th, 2010, 4:04 pm

PetieMarie22 wrote:Cause they think only pit bull type dogs bite when they are scared? Aren't these people that work around and with dogs?


Um, yea. The ignorance against PB type dogs never ceases to astound me. I blew a gasket when I heard about their stipulations. There is absolutely no personality comparison between the dog that bit last week and the dog we wanted them to take this week. NONE. Besides, we all know that any scared dog may bite, apparently they don't get that.
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby TheRedQueen » August 15th, 2010, 11:30 am

Coming back to this...why does your shelter not do any temperament testing? I'd have thought testing would have weeded out a dog like this (the one that was stand-offish and bit). Just weeding out outward aggression only is a recipe for trouble...imho.

The "trying to save them all" rescues make me very angry...
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby BigDogBuford » August 15th, 2010, 12:09 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:Coming back to this...why does your shelter not do any temperament testing? I'd have thought testing would have weeded out a dog like this (the one that was stand-offish and bit). Just weeding out outward aggression only is a recipe for trouble...imho.

The "trying to save them all" rescues make me very angry...


This.

Also, you would think people doing a lot of transporting would have better dog skills.....
~Jeanine

You never know when it will strike, but there comes a moment at work when you know that you just aren't going to do anything productive for the rest of the day.
User avatar
BigDogBuford
I love snipe hunts.
 
Posts: 2053
Location: Lake Stevens, WA

Postby TheRedQueen » August 15th, 2010, 12:23 pm

BigDogBuford wrote:Also, you would think people doing a lot of transporting would have better dog skills.....


One would think that...but I see soooo many "I LOVE DOGS!" type of people working in rescue. *sigh* But they don't really *know* dogs. I've recently heard of a foster home that had THREE fights in the first 24 hours of a new foster arriving...the last one requiring a trip to the E-vet. Seriously? WTF...why would these dogs not be separated after the first one (or before, since we're talking bully breeds). My foster right now should not have been pulled, honestly...and I'm not sure she'll make it to adoptable stage. :sad2: Her sister is doing fine...except the rescue just got told..."we need to find her a new foster home...she's chewing/peeing/pooping all over the house...and we don't have time to crate her." My head exploded on that one.
"I don't have any idea if my dogs respect me or not, but they're greedy and I have their stuff." -- Patty Ruzzo

"Dogs don't want to control people. They want to control their own lives." --John Bradshaw
User avatar
TheRedQueen
I thought I lost my Wiener... but then I found him.
 
Posts: 7184
Location: Maryland

Postby HappyChick » August 15th, 2010, 1:48 pm

TheRedQueen wrote:
BigDogBuford wrote:Also, you would think people doing a lot of transporting would have better dog skills.....


One would think that...but I see soooo many "I LOVE DOGS!" type of people working in rescue. *sigh* But they don't really *know* dogs. I've recently heard of a foster home that had THREE fights in the first 24 hours of a new foster arriving...the last one requiring a trip to the E-vet. Seriously? WTF...why would these dogs not be separated after the first one (or before, since we're talking bully breeds). My foster right now should not have been pulled, honestly...and I'm not sure she'll make it to adoptable stage. :sad2:


Yes! I agree. You know how much I love dogs, but I'm realistic. Not all dogs should be saved (sorry to those who don't agree, but this is how I feel). The dog who bit may or may not be one of the dogs that should not be saved. I don't know. What I do know is that he is receiving formal training now, according to the rescue that took him. I would not have gotten him into rescue, myself, but only because of the "feeling" I had about him while at the shelter. That is separate from the bite situation.

I've talked to Dawn about this at length. She is definitely the "save them all" type, bless her heart. I think the bite situation was a wake up call for her. I think she is starting to get it now. She asked me to tell her in the future when I question whether a dog should go to rescue.

Our shelter does not do TT because no one there is trained. The County runs the facility and the story I got was that they didn't want to spend the money. I contacted ATTS, but they do not have a qualified tester anywhere near us. I've also been told that our ACO had no prior experience or training to do the job she has now. The assistant ACO was a vet tech before taking the job at the shelter. So that leaves it up to us volunteers to figure out what we can about the dogs and go from there. I think I have pretty good instincts when it comes to dogs, but I know the shelter environment affects them in different ways and can change a dog's personality while there. I would be happy to get trained myself, but don't know how to go about it.

The good news is that Dawn and I are both learning from our mistakes. Hopefully, the transport folks are learning too. Unfortunately, they seem to be learning the wrong lessons with targeting bully breeds. However, this could be a reflection of their distrust of our shelter's (and Dawn's and my) ability to weed out the dogs with issues such as the one dog that bit.

TheRedQueen wrote:Her sister is doing fine...except the rescue just got told..."we need to find her a new foster home...she's chewing/peeing/pooping all over the house...and we don't have time to crate her." My head exploded on that one.


WHAT? That rescue needs to stop using those people to foster. How ridiculous!!
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701

Postby HappyChick » August 17th, 2010, 4:44 pm

I feel better about the "prejudice" part. I "talked" to the woman who coordinates the transport. Dogs thought to be a "flight risk" are crated for the entire trip. Our dog who bit should have been labeled a flight risk because of his strength, not because of his breed. She was on vacation the week it happened, which is why he was taken out of the kennel during transport. So it's size and strength of the dog, not breed that determines if they are labeled a flight risk or not. Dogs that remain in the crate during the entire transport are fed and watered, but I'm not sure how they do it without opening the crate.

The reason the people doing transport don't always have good dog skills is because they are "pet" people who volunteer their money and time each week. I understand the bigger picture now. However, I did pass on the suggestions you all gave me. She said she would pass them on to the actual transporters.

Thanks for the input!!
Angie & crew

http://www.epitome-dog-rescue.org

My beloved Vincenzo 07/22/05 - 11/16/09 forever in my heart. Cancer sucks.
HappyChick
Loyally Bully
 
Posts: 701


Return to Transport

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

cron